"STEWART vs. THE SUE"

THE COURT CASE
EXCERPTS OF OTHER TESTIMONY

WINNIE STEWART (Colored)

Q. You say the forward cabin was second class. Tell the court why you say so, and what you know about it?
A. The second class cabin isn't fit for no decent person to stay in. I have traveled on the first class ticket in the steamer Sue. I have traveled on the second class ticket. About three years ago I paid $1.50 for a second class ticket to Baltimore from Kinsale, and I went down into this here forward cabin to sleep. When I goes down there it was not fitten for a dog to stay in. I goes right to the bunks and I hushed up the sheets to see the condition the mattress was in, and it was just as black as could be, and I didn't undress to get in there. I just got two chairs and put together, and borrowed the cooks overcoat and spread over my head and passed the night that way, and I said then at that time "if money will ever prevent me from staying in that hole I will never go in there again." When I went home the next summer I paid $3.00 for a first class ticket and goes down in the white ladies cabin. It was doubly superior to this place. There was white spreads, white blankets, white sheets, wash-bowl, pitcher, comb and brush, looking-glass, towels; nice carpet on the floor, nice chairs and everything down there. I was just getting ready to undress to go to the bed and the clerk himself came down and drove me out, and then I had to go up into the upper saloon and pass the night sitting there.

MARY M. STEWART JOHNSON (Colored)

Q. Did you ever know of colored persons being permitted to occupy the after cabin?
The WITNESS. On a first class ticket?
Mr. THOMAS. On any ticket.
A. Yes sir; once before I had gone down in that cabin, and then it was the captain's orders for us all to come out that night; but we were undressed and wouldn't come out.

LUCY STEWART JONES (Colored)

Q. Were had you slept before? A. I went down into the ladies cabin, the aft cabin, and I had undressed and gone to bed, when some of them came and ordered us to come out, and I sent the captain word I wasn't coming out, because I had undressed and gone to bed.

PAULINE BRAXTON (Colored)

Q. When you bought first class tickets where did you stay?
A. In the upper saloon until last summer. Last summer I had selected my bed down there, but I wasn't permitted to stay down there. Summer before last when I went down there I had undressed and gone to bed, and Lizzie came down and said the clerk said every colored person must come out of there. I told her I had undressed and gone to bed, and wasn't coming out by any means.

DENNIS JOHNSON (Colored)

By Mr. Sterling
Q. Where do you live? A. I live at 245 North Eutaw Street.
Q. What is your business? A. I am a coachman
Q. Have you traveled on the steamer Sue? A. I have.
Q. When did you travel on her? A. I traveled on her in the year 1882 and the month of August.
Q. Where did you go? A. I went to Kinsale, Westmoreland County.
Q. Do you come from Virginia too? A. I do
Q. What sort of ticket did you buy? A. A first class ticket.
Q. Where did you sleep? A. I had to stay in the saloon all night.
Q. Why? A. I hadn't any other place to stay excepting I stayed down in the forward cabin.
Q. Why didn't you stay there? A. Because it wasn't fit for me to stay there.
Q. How do you know that? A. I was down there in the forenoon before -- -- -- in the early part of the evening I was in there, and I saw it wasn't fit, and so I wouldn't go there, and  I said so.

By the Court
Q. When was that? A. 1882. I only traveled on the steamer Sue twice, Going and coming.
Q. That was in 1882? A. Yes sir, I was traveling forwards and backwards, and I went down in the forenoon and asked if this was the place for colored passengers, and some of the waiters on the boat said yes.  I said "is this the only place?"  They said yes; and I went and sat in the saloon, and about nine o'clock the clerk came around to me and says "This isn't the place for you."  I says "Where am I to go?"  He says "Go in the forward cabin."  I says "No sir; I have a first class ticket."  He says "Let me see it."  I showed it to him, and he didn't say any more and didn't tell me any other place to stay.

By Mr. Sterling
Q. You say that the forward cabin was not fit. Why was it not fit? A. It was naturally a filthy  place; that was the reason. I didn't care to stay.  I knowed it wasn't first class fare down there.  The place was naturally filthy.

By Mr. Thomas
Q. You are speaking of the mens part are you not? A. Yes sir.

         ( objected to and objection sustained. )

By Mr. Sterling
Q. Did you notice the women's apartment? A. No sir I did not notice anything at all, only the place wasn't fit for me to stay.
Q. Did you notice whether the door was open? A. I didn't notice anything at all about the door or anything; only the condition of the place.
Q. But they said to you that the forward cabin was the place for colored people? A. Yes sir; that is what they told me.

By Mr. Thomas
Is not all the testimony in reference to the condition of the cabin to be ruled out?

The Court
The stenographer can note the objection to it.  I will not strike it out.  It serves to show, so far as  it may turn out to be pertinent, that for both men and women there was no other cabin than these two forward cabins for both second and first class colored passengers.

Mr. Thomas
I desire to have it noted that the testimony refers simply to what he observed in 1882.

MARY E. JOHNSON (Colored)

By Mr. Sterling
Q. Have you traveled on the steamer Sue from Baltimore to Virginia? A. Yes sir; I have
Q. When was the last time, and how many times have you made the trip? A. I traveled on her last summer, and I have been traveling on her ever since she has been running on the line.
Q. What tickets did you get on these trips? A. When I first began to travel I took the second class ticket.
Q.  Where did you stay at night when you took the second class ticket? A. I stayed in the second class cabin.
Q.  Where was that? A. The second class cabin was - - -

By the Court
Q. In the forward part of the boat? A. Yes sir.

By Mr. Sterling
Q. How did you stay there; what accommodations did you find, and what did you do? A. I had very poor accommodations.
Q. What were they? A. The bunks had no blankets to them at all, and very few of them had sheets; and the last time I stayed there, four years ago there wasn't even a carpet on the floor, and not any wash-basin, pitcher, comb or brush or looking glass.
Q. Do you know anything about the door? A. Yes sir; the last time I stayed in there I asked the man that tended down there - - - I never seen any woman- - for the key to lock the door. The door was open and I was sitting down there, and one or two white men came walking  down there drunk; and I asked for the key.  Says he "Lord child I haven't seen that key for three or
four years - - - I couldn't tell you when."  I had to stay down there; and I made up my mind I would never go down there again.
Q. After that you got a first class ticket? A. Yes sir.
Q. Where did you stay then? A. Up in the saloon. After the clerk sold me the first class ticket he told me I couldn't go down into the first class cabin to sleep.
Q. There is, the cabin aft? A. Yes sir.
Q. He wouldn't let you go there? A. No sir.
Q. You sat up in the saloon. A. I did sir; until year before last, and then I was sick when I went down, and asked the chambermaid, and ever since I have been buying a place from her to sleep at.
Q. Where did she give you a place to sleep? A. First she gave me a place in the first class cabin, and the next time in a stateroom with her.
Q. You were sick? A. Yes sir.
Q. And you paid her for it? A. Yes sir.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

By Mr. Thomas
Q. When you were sick and asked the chambermaid for a place, you say she gave you one in the after cabin? A.Yes sir.
Q. Was that the only time you occupied a place in the after cabin? A. That was the only time.  The first time I bought  the ticket the clerk told me I couldn't go down there to stay, after that I bought the ticket; I would have to go in the second class cabin to sleep.
Q. Did you pay her extra for it? A. I did.
Q. How Much? A. I paid her twenty-five cents that time I stayed; and the next time she asked for fifty-cents and after that she asked me for a dollar.
Q. Who was that? A. Lizzie the chambermaid.

THE OPINION